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« It Keeps on Coming | Main | Dead Market Walking »

April 27, 2007

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This is interesting. I would assume that the three months before the recession is official is probably worse.

I haven't actually run the numbers, but I think you might be surprised. A quick visual read suggests that was probably true before 1980, but since then, the equity market has tended to peak with the economy.

Roubini has run the numbers. His work suggests, as you'd expect, that from the market peak (a few months prior to the formal start date of the recession) the market declines an average of 28%.

http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/144686/

Thanks for that, interesting link. Your last post has cemented in me the idea that bad things are going to happen soon, I shall have to talk to my adviser, though that said, I told him bad things were coming 2 years ago and he never believed me... :)

I agree that bad things are coming, and probably very soon. The markets are on life support. The question is where to hide the chesnuts? Where are the safe havens for assets this time? European equities? Swiss bonds? Hard gold or coins/collectibles? If this is a nasty crash, US Tresuries and bonds may not be a safe haven at all.

I address all of your points in my book, and I would urge you to read it if you have the opportunity. That said, I believe there will be very few hiding places in phase one of the coming unraveling, except for cash and short-term government bonds. Longer term, it gets a lot trickier, and your last sentence raises valid concerns.

I think that the strong increase in the stock market averages is holding up consumer spending in the face of declining house prices. So we won't see a full blown recession until the stock market turns. This may seem a bit paradoxical as you would generally expect an impending recession to cause the stock market to turn.

However, the stock market can become disconnected from the economy if it is in a bubble – which I think it is. Margin debt on the NYSE it is rapidly increasing is a parabolic increase similar to what was seen in 2000 and this is the key factor driving the stock market. In fact nominal margin debt is above the peak in 2000, while margin debt indexed by the CPI and GDP (neither is ideal, best would be the value of securities on the NYSE) is approaching the 2000 peak. Furthermore, the market seems heavily dependent on increasing margin debt. The weakness in the stock market from late February -mid-March was associated with stabilising margin debt (i.e. no increase). This leads to the following chain of reasoning:
1) margin debt cannot increase in a parabolic fashion for very long;
2) spikes in margin debt have not been followed by plateaus in the data series going back to 1959 but rather declines;
3) The spikes in margin debt in 2000 and now dwarf all previous spikes;
4) 1) and 2) suggest that the stock market will turn fairly soon unless margin buyers are replaced by other buyers e.g. institutions. This seems unlikely as institutions are not likely to re-enter the market after a substantial gain driven by such a large increase in margin debt. 3) suggests that the turn could be substantial
4) When the stock market falls and it may fall precipitously, there is likely to be a strong reaction on the part of consumers who have been living fairly precariously for quite a while (first depending on home price appreciation for their savings; now switching back to dependence on the stock market).

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