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« 'When the U.S. Sneezes, the Rest of the World...' | Main | Why Are The Screw-Ups Still in Charge? »

October 26, 2008

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Mike P:
You need a laugh. Click on this link:
http://news-info.wustl.edu/tips/page/normal/3562.html for the source of the one-armed economist.

Good one! Thanks.

If the quality of professional economist is less than desirable
maybe we should check on the standards of the schools them selves,
(Every school of thought is like a man who has talked to himself for a hundred years and is delighted with his own mind, however stupid it may be.
(J.W. Goethe, 1817).

The cause of the great depression and the cause of whatever this will turn out to be is probably "attitude."

There can be several reasons for "a consumer" to change his habits and it won't matter much to the economy. But, when the majority change their attitude from spending to saving, no matter the reasons, it spells disaster for a consumption based economy. But, we made things worse this time by creating $49 Trillion in debt $111 Trillion with unfunded liabilities (City, state, personal and corporate added to federal debt). Now, the change in attitude may cause all that unwinding to create a cycle that can't be stopped.

The consumer spends less. Profits fall and cause layoffs like in any recession. But, this time, there is a much greater fall in tax revenues because much of the consumption was based on home equity. Both because you could borrow on it and because your "growing wealth," made you confident and willing to spend more, we splurged and now tax revenues are plunging in some areas. This is causing more cuts in spending by cities and states and layoffs both from government and the companies that sell things to government.

That in turn, causes more drops in spending and more declines in profits and tax revenues. If the government pushes trillions into the financial system it won't help until that money is reaching workers and they change their spending to a more positive number. Even if they get the money, like in a new stimulus check, it won't help if they don't spend it. If it is used to pay down debt, we are left in the same place we are before the stimulus hits them.

Human nature causes more booms and busts to last longer than government. We could easily have a 10-20 year downturn if the consumer decides to keep saving and not spending on many of the discretionary items he did before. Think of how long the "depression era" thinking lasted with those who lived through it. They passed some on to their children and grandchildren and only in the 80's and 90's did we really return to the 20's type spending spree.

The key is not what the government does but what the consumer does. The government can make it a lot worse and probably will.

This article by Karl Denninger says a lot about how we got so deep into this mess. Note the 1968 date in the article.

http://tinyurl.com/6r5q8d

Paul: Rain is forecast,your attitude is to sport a rain coat,
your attitude is not the cause of the rain....is it???

OK, so what I've gathered from this article is that the problem is either faulty economic thinking or attitude. It's laughable.

THE PROBLEM IS EXCESSIVE LEVERAGE!

The problem is that people borrowed on the come, assuming that prices would never fall. It's not a new story. It's the same old story. The only difference is that we now live in an age where people blame the news, or the economists, or attitude.

Baloney.

The problem is excessive leverage. The end.

I read more vapid commentary about the Great Depression, it is depressing.

The Great Depression was NOT all about the US not spending money on domestic goods. It was all about the collapse of the British pound in the wake of WWI. And the collapse of Germany's ability to pay reparations. And both Germany AND Britain owed the US banking system record amounts of money!

And to shore up the German reparations payments, the US central bank loaned yet more money to Germany in 1928-1929. When Germany was unable to pay the interest on these loans, our entire banking system went down the creek.

The Fed raised interest rates because EUROPE was borrowing like crazy, not because US consumers were buying radios or cars!

The inability to understand international trade/war/banking is at the root of most economist's inability to understand how the US is now playing the role of Germany and Britain in the Great Depression collapse. We are the ones unable to pay for our military, our business or anything. So we are basically defaulting on our loans to Asia.

Fuddwhacher,

I agree with your conclusion. Debt is the problem. But we shouldn't call it leverage. Leverage is what companies use, borrowing at low interest rates to increase their capital assets which can produce at a higher rate of return than the cost of the debt. People use debt to buy stuff with their future income which can sometimes be smart, but usually isn't.

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